This is really hard, Derek, but also good. I'll be praying for you and Jennifer! Good for you for breaking the ice and her for accompanying you even as you each will have your own discernment. God will lead you both! It is an uncomfortable experience to have to face a change like this with courage, but you are doing it.
As for the three-year-old...man, yeah, it's tough. Just be assured that every Catholic three-year-old has done this in church more than once. I'm sure it was embarrassing, but truly...you and your daughter are welcome!! We all have stories like this. And it's okay to shop around a little bit to find the parish where it is easiest to go with kids :)
I want to say BEEN THERE DONE THAT in the biggest possible letters. Hang in there!
Jennifer -- my husband has sprung stuff like this on me before. (The jerk! Just kidding...sort of...) It has always resolved well in time, and we have grown from it, and even from the conflict in it.
Praying so much for your discernment. Please tell your wife taking kids to Mass is HARD! I am humbled by them weekly, so she is not alone.
As I was reading I was literally thinking of this interview on Matt Fradds podcast, so I'm glad you found that.
A word of caution from a lifelong Catholic, while the theology is beautiful and rich I have found that our Protestants brothers and sisters are really amazing at hospitality and joy. In my personal experience as a Catholic for 41 years and as someone who worked at a lot of parishes, we Catholics really struggle with this. Don't be discouraged!!! Just know the *feel* of church MIGHT be different. The parish we go to now is very welcoming and warm, so they do exist. Sending so much love and many prayers to you and your sweet wife ❤️
Your wife sounds like a truly wonderful woman, and it sounds like she's handled this bombshell with a huge amount of grace and openness. I'm praying for you both.
Since y'all are starting to live more liturgically, I have a couple book recommendations (these might be more for your wife)...
A Continual Feast by Evelyn Birge Vitz is a cookbook with recipes centered around the seasons of the liturgical year along with a couple short essays about that season. She talks about Orthodox, Catholic, and if memory serves some Protestant traditions as well. It'd probably be a good way to start investigating that aspect of Christianity without it feeling too specifically "Catholic".
The Year and Our Children by Mary Reed Newland is written from a more strictly Catholic perspective, and was written in the late 50s so some suggestions are a little dated (ok, one suggestion for St. Nicholas day is a LOT dated), but it's easy and fun to read. The author takes a very encouraging ,conversational, joyful tone and is very realistic about practicing the faith liturgically with young kids in the house. She also does a fantastic job explaining the "why" behind all these feasts and seasons, and some of her suggestions for observing them have fit our family really well. (And she has suggestions for including Protestant friends in the fun which may or may not be a plus for y'all, I don't know).
I keep a small notebook of prayer intentions with me, and I’m going to write DEREK AND JENNIFER PETTY at the very top of every page. Those who seek, find, my friend. So keep seeking!
This is such a journey and one that can be SO difficult and rewarding. I’m glad you are slowing down and really processing, praying and discerning. I’ll be praying for you!
Also I wish I could have known about you guys attending Mass! I made a mass guide for non-Catholics because my family is not Catholic but would attend for baptisms and first holy communion and I didn’t want them to be lost, confused or uncomfortable. It’s so hard to experience the Mass when you’re so new to it!
I'll be praying for you, man, for sure. I came from a sort-of-similar situation; when I was engaged and we were looking for a church and decided we were interested in Catholicism, I kinda dropped the news on my Pentecostal family without warning, which...did not go well. More than a few tearful conversations. I love that phrase you used at the end, back on solid ground; that's where we are, I think; my mom even gave us a "Saint Every Day" book last Christmas.
At any rate, I will definitely be praying for you and yours, and I hope your RCIA journey goes well!
Derek, this is interesting! I've never heard of someone using the filioque controversy as a reason to choose Catholicism over Orthodoxy. I'd be curious to know more about your thinking.
In John 15:26, Christ tells us that the Holy Spirit "proceeds from the Father," and the filioque was a later, unilateral addition by Rome to the Nicene Creed, which had been precisely formulated by an ecumenical council.
Man, I can relate to so much of what you are going through.
My wife was/is not interested in discussing theological issues or differences.
She was also not interested in converting to Catholicism when I out of the blue told her I was.
My two year old son was not interested in our first mass and that experience ended worse for us. We didn’t leave and some hateful hag scolded my wife after mass and told us we should have left because he was distracting. After that experience my wife was even less interested in converting.
But three years after that incident we are in RCIA and our whole family will be entering the Church this Easter.
You’re doing exactly what you’re supposed to be doing as a husband and father. Keep seeking the Lord’s direction and keep being patient and gracious with your wife and He will lead you to where you need to be.
It's cool to see your openness! I'm very much not Catholic, for lots of reasons, but I've been getting a lot of mileage out of a book called From Willow Creek to Sacred Heart: Rekindling My Love for Catholicism by Chris Haw. I’d highly recommend it. My wife and I read it together and it was really helpful for us.
All Believers have the Spirit in them, Derek. You are doing right to give the Spirit time to move within you, to speak to you about where you and your family should be. I am trying to filter out a lot of the noise in the world, especially the news because the Spirit moves best when you are quiet and still, open to His voice. God be with you, my friend.
“As a family, we’ve agreed to incorporate more liturgical aspects of Christianity into our home and learn more about the Saints. We agree that much has been lost in our traditions over time and we could only benefit from a closer look at our past. Individually, I have decided to take a breath and give myself more space and time to decide on these things...”.
There is much wisdom in these few sentences Derek. Our family has been on a 10 year journey that ultimately led us into the Orthodox Church. Along the way, a very wise person told me, “don’t be in a hurry to change; the Holy Spirit will change you at the right times, in the right ways, as you continue to follow Christ and seek to do the Father’s Will”. Those words were spot on. True transformation is a slow burn.
Prayers for you and your family! May your journey be blessed.
I’m praying very hard for you and your wife! While reading this post, I got an idea...do you think it would be helpful if I wrote a kind of walkthrough explanation of the Catholic Mass geared toward those discerning the Faith? I would post it over at Missio Dei, the Catholic Substack for whom I write, and while you and your wife would certainly be in mind as I write, I would never mention either of you in the post. If you think this would be helpful, I’ll get that written this week so that it can be posted as soon as possible.
Again, I’m storming Heaven for you both, as well as for your brother! As Sara mentioned above, the angelic choirs of babies are a common occurrence in Catholic churches, and while I can definitely understand your wife’s embarrassment at the situation, as a fellow lady, I can guarantee you that no one in the church thought much of it. May God bless you and Our Lady keep you!
Oh boy... the revelation that Daniel has a twin sent me over here, and while I'm amused at the mental image of you two getting a 'thumbs up' during Mass, my heartstrings are also pulled to hear about the bumps in the road you're experiencing. I get it. Our house is in a different sort of situation, but I understand what it's like to be on a different path from your spouse in such a new way, and it requires the grace of God. Thankfully, that grace is super-abundant!
Please know that I've added your family to my prayer list, Derek. Peace and all good to you, brother!
Praying for you, Derek!
This is really hard, Derek, but also good. I'll be praying for you and Jennifer! Good for you for breaking the ice and her for accompanying you even as you each will have your own discernment. God will lead you both! It is an uncomfortable experience to have to face a change like this with courage, but you are doing it.
As for the three-year-old...man, yeah, it's tough. Just be assured that every Catholic three-year-old has done this in church more than once. I'm sure it was embarrassing, but truly...you and your daughter are welcome!! We all have stories like this. And it's okay to shop around a little bit to find the parish where it is easiest to go with kids :)
I want to say BEEN THERE DONE THAT in the biggest possible letters. Hang in there!
Jennifer -- my husband has sprung stuff like this on me before. (The jerk! Just kidding...sort of...) It has always resolved well in time, and we have grown from it, and even from the conflict in it.
Praying so much for your discernment. Please tell your wife taking kids to Mass is HARD! I am humbled by them weekly, so she is not alone.
As I was reading I was literally thinking of this interview on Matt Fradds podcast, so I'm glad you found that.
A word of caution from a lifelong Catholic, while the theology is beautiful and rich I have found that our Protestants brothers and sisters are really amazing at hospitality and joy. In my personal experience as a Catholic for 41 years and as someone who worked at a lot of parishes, we Catholics really struggle with this. Don't be discouraged!!! Just know the *feel* of church MIGHT be different. The parish we go to now is very welcoming and warm, so they do exist. Sending so much love and many prayers to you and your sweet wife ❤️
Praying for you and Jennifer!
Your wife sounds like a truly wonderful woman, and it sounds like she's handled this bombshell with a huge amount of grace and openness. I'm praying for you both.
Since y'all are starting to live more liturgically, I have a couple book recommendations (these might be more for your wife)...
A Continual Feast by Evelyn Birge Vitz is a cookbook with recipes centered around the seasons of the liturgical year along with a couple short essays about that season. She talks about Orthodox, Catholic, and if memory serves some Protestant traditions as well. It'd probably be a good way to start investigating that aspect of Christianity without it feeling too specifically "Catholic".
The Year and Our Children by Mary Reed Newland is written from a more strictly Catholic perspective, and was written in the late 50s so some suggestions are a little dated (ok, one suggestion for St. Nicholas day is a LOT dated), but it's easy and fun to read. The author takes a very encouraging ,conversational, joyful tone and is very realistic about practicing the faith liturgically with young kids in the house. She also does a fantastic job explaining the "why" behind all these feasts and seasons, and some of her suggestions for observing them have fit our family really well. (And she has suggestions for including Protestant friends in the fun which may or may not be a plus for y'all, I don't know).
Again, prayers for you both. ❤️
I keep a small notebook of prayer intentions with me, and I’m going to write DEREK AND JENNIFER PETTY at the very top of every page. Those who seek, find, my friend. So keep seeking!
This is such a journey and one that can be SO difficult and rewarding. I’m glad you are slowing down and really processing, praying and discerning. I’ll be praying for you!
Also I wish I could have known about you guys attending Mass! I made a mass guide for non-Catholics because my family is not Catholic but would attend for baptisms and first holy communion and I didn’t want them to be lost, confused or uncomfortable. It’s so hard to experience the Mass when you’re so new to it!
I'll be praying for you, man, for sure. I came from a sort-of-similar situation; when I was engaged and we were looking for a church and decided we were interested in Catholicism, I kinda dropped the news on my Pentecostal family without warning, which...did not go well. More than a few tearful conversations. I love that phrase you used at the end, back on solid ground; that's where we are, I think; my mom even gave us a "Saint Every Day" book last Christmas.
At any rate, I will definitely be praying for you and yours, and I hope your RCIA journey goes well!
Derek, this is interesting! I've never heard of someone using the filioque controversy as a reason to choose Catholicism over Orthodoxy. I'd be curious to know more about your thinking.
In John 15:26, Christ tells us that the Holy Spirit "proceeds from the Father," and the filioque was a later, unilateral addition by Rome to the Nicene Creed, which had been precisely formulated by an ecumenical council.
Man, I can relate to so much of what you are going through.
My wife was/is not interested in discussing theological issues or differences.
She was also not interested in converting to Catholicism when I out of the blue told her I was.
My two year old son was not interested in our first mass and that experience ended worse for us. We didn’t leave and some hateful hag scolded my wife after mass and told us we should have left because he was distracting. After that experience my wife was even less interested in converting.
But three years after that incident we are in RCIA and our whole family will be entering the Church this Easter.
You’re doing exactly what you’re supposed to be doing as a husband and father. Keep seeking the Lord’s direction and keep being patient and gracious with your wife and He will lead you to where you need to be.
It's cool to see your openness! I'm very much not Catholic, for lots of reasons, but I've been getting a lot of mileage out of a book called From Willow Creek to Sacred Heart: Rekindling My Love for Catholicism by Chris Haw. I’d highly recommend it. My wife and I read it together and it was really helpful for us.
All Believers have the Spirit in them, Derek. You are doing right to give the Spirit time to move within you, to speak to you about where you and your family should be. I am trying to filter out a lot of the noise in the world, especially the news because the Spirit moves best when you are quiet and still, open to His voice. God be with you, my friend.
“As a family, we’ve agreed to incorporate more liturgical aspects of Christianity into our home and learn more about the Saints. We agree that much has been lost in our traditions over time and we could only benefit from a closer look at our past. Individually, I have decided to take a breath and give myself more space and time to decide on these things...”.
There is much wisdom in these few sentences Derek. Our family has been on a 10 year journey that ultimately led us into the Orthodox Church. Along the way, a very wise person told me, “don’t be in a hurry to change; the Holy Spirit will change you at the right times, in the right ways, as you continue to follow Christ and seek to do the Father’s Will”. Those words were spot on. True transformation is a slow burn.
Prayers for you and your family! May your journey be blessed.
I’m praying very hard for you and your wife! While reading this post, I got an idea...do you think it would be helpful if I wrote a kind of walkthrough explanation of the Catholic Mass geared toward those discerning the Faith? I would post it over at Missio Dei, the Catholic Substack for whom I write, and while you and your wife would certainly be in mind as I write, I would never mention either of you in the post. If you think this would be helpful, I’ll get that written this week so that it can be posted as soon as possible.
Again, I’m storming Heaven for you both, as well as for your brother! As Sara mentioned above, the angelic choirs of babies are a common occurrence in Catholic churches, and while I can definitely understand your wife’s embarrassment at the situation, as a fellow lady, I can guarantee you that no one in the church thought much of it. May God bless you and Our Lady keep you!
My prayers are with you as you discern. 🙏🏻
Oh boy... the revelation that Daniel has a twin sent me over here, and while I'm amused at the mental image of you two getting a 'thumbs up' during Mass, my heartstrings are also pulled to hear about the bumps in the road you're experiencing. I get it. Our house is in a different sort of situation, but I understand what it's like to be on a different path from your spouse in such a new way, and it requires the grace of God. Thankfully, that grace is super-abundant!
Please know that I've added your family to my prayer list, Derek. Peace and all good to you, brother!